Episode 25: When You’re NOT Grateful
Today is Thanksgiving in the United States, and all month we’ve been hit by the mixed messages of gratitude and consumerism leading up to this holiday season. Today the sisters hold space for when you just don’t feel grateful, and reframe what gratitude can look and feel like.
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TRANSCRIPT
Kayla 0:09
You're listening to the My Sister’s Cancer podcast. I'm Kayla Crum, registered nurse and writer.
Ella 0:15
And I'm Ella Beckett, social worker and cancer survivor.
Kayla 0:20
We're sisters on a mission to care for the cancer community through the sharing of real life stories, a sprinkle of sass, and lots of support.
Ella 0:28
Join us in a new kind of pity party. It's a pity so many of us carry the heavy burden of cancer alone. So let's make it a party and carry it together.
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Kayla 0:42
Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to the My Sister's Cancer podcast. Thanks for joining us. Whether you're listening live on Thanksgiving or after the fact, we totally understand. Before we jump into today's episode about being grateful or not on this holiday, I just wanted to remind everybody that we're super thankful for our patrons. We have a small but mighty group of patrons who support us for $5 a month over at Patreon. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com, and they make this podcast possible. There are some fees associated with the program that we use, the software to record the podcast, we had to invest in some microphones, and then there's a storage fee for where we keep all of the episodes online on the cloud. So if you would like to be a part of supporting that work, we would love if you could join us. There's a link in every episode on our website and also in our bio on Instagram, and we're so thankful for those of you who have joined us in that small group. So Ella, why don't you start us off telling us where we're going to go today with this theme of gratitude that I'm sure we're all being pummeled with today.
Ella 1:58
I thought we could maybe start by sharing some things that we're thankful for right now in this season of our life. In a little while, we'll kind of talk through, obviously, my experience with cancer and how that related to gratitude and maybe times when it was really hard for us to be grateful. But I thought we could start by just kind of talking through some things that we're grateful for right now in this season.
Kayla 2:24
Yeah and like Ella said, we're going to get into the fact that if you're not in a grateful place today, we will totally get there and address that. We have been there, too. For me, I'm super grateful right now to be in a freelance writing business. I do this podcast, but then I also am writing for various clients and was able to transition to doing that full time, thanks to the financial support of my husband and learning and hard work over the last two years. Very thankful for this new season, as it really feels like the best marriage of my knowledge and skills in a way that works for my life, and I'm especially thankful to be able to work from home right now because I am expecting a baby. This will be our first due in May. So I'm very thankful for that pregnancy and that so far everything is going well and knowing too well that, you know, not everybody gets to do this or experiences a healthy pregnancy. And so just really trying to hold all of that and like, really be grateful for what I have during this time. What about you?
Ella 3:39
I think right now in this season, I am just super grateful for stable health for both me and my husband. As we've shared before on the podcast, we're both cancer survivors and we just know all too well how precarious life is and how precarious our health is. And right now we are both just healthy and I am so grateful for that. I'm also really grateful for school, as strange as that sounds. I went back to school this fall and I'm starting my master's program in social work, and I've always really enjoyed school. But I think with this grad school program, I'm just absolutely loving what I'm doing. And it's really affirming to me that I'm doing the right thing right now. And so that's just a really great feeling, and I'm just grateful for everything I'm learning.
Kayla 4:36
That's awesome. I don't think that if I was in grad school, I would feel grateful about it. So I'm so glad to hear it's a positive experience for you. I do want to acknowledge, as we sort of enter what many call the holiday season, that anniversaries can crop up during this time and memories of other holidays, whether or not you do Thanksgiving and Christmas, there's New Year’s, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, like this whole like, stretch of 2 to 3 months has a lot of holidays, regardless of your religious affiliation. And it can be difficult if you're going through something currently or if you've gone through something in the past or you've lost someone during this time. So we always want to leave space for that, and we'll have some more episodes in the future, too, addressing that very thing. And today, why don't we start by talking about your first experience with cancer that sort of wrapped up around Thanksgiving and what that kind of did to you, for you during the holiday?
Ella 5:42
Yeah. So the way that my treatment kind of was laid out again, like we just talked about in a very recent episode, the timeline is forever changing for cancer treatment. But the way it all kind of shook out my first time around in 2016, I remember really clearly my last scheduled chemo just happened to fall on the week of Thanksgiving. And I just remember everyone's response was just like - I think I had posted about it or something. And just like people who knew too, you know, everyone was so excited and was like, yay! Like, you have so much to be grateful for this year. And also like, yay, you're done. Like just, you know, “slammed that book shut.” Like you are, you're done with it. Whew. Like and yes, I was so, like, excited. And yes, I was really grateful to be done. But I also just had a lot of like, not grateful feelings and just - it's such a mixed bag when you're like, wrapping up treatment. I think we've touched on that before too. And so in many ways, it just was hard to sit with all of that, I guess. And then, yeah, just for that to be happening like two days before this holiday where we all, you know, focus on what we're grateful for and want to share it with everyone. It was just kind of a lot.
Kayla 7:06
Yeah, I don't have strong memories, interestingly, of your first remission coordinating with Thanksgiving. I do think expectation of a “you’re done” finish line that we kind of impose on people who are finishing something like cancer treatment or any sort of health road is difficult, and we were naive at the time and also thought we could kind of cross that finish line and then celebrate the holidays or whatever. And now we know all too well that it's a long journey, for lack of a better word. I know some people roll their eyes at that term, but really, finishing chemo is just the beginning of healing from the whole experience, especially emotionally. I think we've talked before about how a lot of times you're just surviving and like physically getting through it, even if you're a caregiver. And then you start to like, really feel the emotions and the grief after the fact. Even if you're better like, you feel like you shouldn't have been grieving. But yeah, even if you're better, you're starting to wrestle with all of that. I think the almost trivialization of gratitude that we've kind of seen on social media over the last 5 to 10 years has made this a difficult holiday. That #blessed trend. I don't think it's as strong anymore, but it definitely used to have quite the hold, especially on like, Christian suburban white women. And even mixing, like the #blessed idea mixes up the fact that, like, God is looking on me and my family with favor. And then if you're going through something hard, it's kind of implying that God's not looking out for you when we kind of conflate good things with blessings from God. And it's so hard because I do believe God wants good things for us and can bless us in various ways. I just don't think it's quite as simple as we make it on social media. God is complex. He couldn't be God otherwise. And faith is complex. And so when we, you know, say like #blessed, faith, family and friends or whatever, it's just like difficult to feel that if you're going through something difficult.
Ella 9:31
Well, and I think it wasn't even necessarily like - I don't think I was declared in remission yet. There was still a lot of unknown. Right. Like I had just finished chemo, like I did my last scheduled chemo and we were awaiting the scan. So I think that's what made it that much harder was like, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like everybody's celebrating too soon. Like we don't know yet if it's going to be good news. And so I think that just made it - Thanksgiving - that much harder, because that next scan wasn't for like two weeks or whatever. So then you're having to go through the motions on Thanksgiving without really knowing what that scan is going to hold. Now, that's not to say that I couldn't find anything to be grateful for or that I like… Right? You know, it's not a either/or thing, but I just think, like you were just saying, there's just so much more complexity and so much more nuance. And we often just try to make things so black and white and they're just not.
Kayla 10:34
Yeah, yeah, I'd forgotten that. You're right. Because we later did like a snow angel post when you were in remission. Um, so that was after Thanksgiving. So, yeah, I think that just speaks to a more general experience for people, whether it's cancer-related or not. So many of us are holding complexity even when we're grateful. Uh, so rarely is life - as an adult, at least - so black and white that you are just truly grateful for how everything's going or truly devastated at everything. It's often a mixed bag. If you're not hurting, someone close to you is probably hurting, whether physically or emotionally. Even blessings in and of themselves, as we call them, have dark sides. Right? To love at all is to be vulnerable. So even with this pregnancy, like, I'm so grateful for it. And then of course, I'm like, so many things could go wrong. Having kids at all is an interesting concept, right? Because like everyone says, that's the biggest blessing, best thing to ever happen to you, blah blah blah. And yet, parenting sounds like the hardest job ever. I mean, I'll report back later, but I can imagine that it is. We never want to say it's a mixed bag, but it is. And that's what most of life is.
Ella 11:53
I can remember another Thanksgiving where it was especially challenging to feel overly grateful, and I think this will be somewhat true for pretty much anyone listening to this podcast. The year 2020. For those of you who might have forgotten already so soon, we were living in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. And I mean, this does relate back to cancer because I had to be very isolated during that time and like, really couldn't do a lot or go a lot of places. I had to - to take it very seriously. And that year was just so hard. I mean, I think for most people it was just an especially difficult, challenging, awful year. And I think those are the years when it's especially difficult to feel grateful and to be prone to giving thanks, you know, for the things that we do have. And I think there's also just like, this weird pressure when you're a person of faith to, like, count your blessings and like, still remember all that we do have and how good life is. And I mean, I think while that's all true, sometimes it's just really hard. And so I guess I just want to acknowledge that and hold space for that too.
Kayla 13:19
I agree, it's so tricky because as you were speaking, I was thinking about how Covid was like a worldwide experience and how rare that is. In a way, the internet has unified us, and yet we all live really different lives. And right now I'm thinking of Ukraine and I'm thinking of Israel and Palestine and obviously, how dare I sit here and talk about how I'm not thankful sometimes, right? Like if we start doing the grief Olympics or comparing things like that, it's easier to be like, I have no right to be upset. And yet again, I just don't think - I don't think it's fair to hold any people group to the standard of always being thankful and happy and cheerful. That's just not the human condition or experience. I don't even think it's possible. And I also don't want to do that thing where people look at or visit poorer areas or countries and say like, “But they were so happy in their simple lives.” And it's like, I've experienced immense hospitality and welcome and joy in homes that are literally like shacks, like I've had that experience. But I don't want to oversimplify their life either. And act like, wow, they were so happy and hospitable and just like, you know, like, shame on me for ever complaining. Like I just… again, everything is so much more complicated. We kind of are a broken record on this episode, but life is complicated and it's okay to hold space for that. So moving forward, how does that play out when you actually have to sit around the dinner table with relatives, some of whom may not be the greatest at holding complexity or acknowledging hurt or boundaries? I mean, this episode’s coming out on Thanksgiving. So unfortunately, a lot of this advice might be a bit late, but think of it more as advice for the holiday season in general. The first thing that I think we've said many times already is to acknowledge in yourself how you're feeling. Allow yourself to just feel what you feel. Feelings aren't bad. Emotions aren't bad. It's what we do with them and how we act on them, and how we interact with other people. That can be good or bad, and that matters. So. If you're just not feeling it this year, if you're going through a health issue, a divorce, loss, one stroke of bad luck after another, you know your car broke down, your water heater broke down, like, Thanksgiving rolls around your oven breaks, like, it's okay if you're not feeling the gratitude, especially on the day. I don't want people to layer guilt on top of feeling sad about all those things.
Ella 16:20
Yeah, and I think going off of that too, I think it's really important that once you've kind of come to terms with and acknowledged how you're feeling, it can be really helpful to communicate how you feel to safe and close family members and friends. I think when we feel things, sometimes we just kind of keep that inside or try to keep it to ourself and power through. But I think even just speaking it out loud can be really helpful, especially to family members who might be at a gathering with you or just like living with you or in your life. I think just yeah, like I said, speaking it out loud has a lot of power too.
Kayla 17:08
As we always say on this podcast, if you're not the person going through a crisis… take your lead from them. So if, you know, you're going into an extended family space where the cousin or an aunt or uncle or whatever, someone who's going through something kind of difficult. Depending on how close you are, I think it'd be fair to sort of text them before or kind of get them alone once you all arrive and just kind of say like, hey, I know holidays can be hard when you're going through stuff, like, how are you doing? And see where they take it. I will say, some people that I've encountered actually lean all the way into gratitude and joy while they're going through something hard, so I never want to pop anybody's balloon if that is how they're coping. So take your lead from the person. Somebody might be like, yeah, internally I don't feel this, but I'm just going to pretend in front of grandma or whatever. And that's up to them. If it's their crisis they're navigating, if they don't feel comfortable sharing how they're truly feeling with a whole table full of relatives or whatever, that's fair. So always just take your lead from whoever is at the center of the crisis. This gets layered and complicated when, like we've talked about many times - I'm the sibling of a cancer patient. And so like in a way, I'm having my own little crisis during that time. And so… I'm not saying you can't feel your own feelings about it or be honest, but maybe there's a more private space where you can express that to fewer people or something. If the person at the center doesn't want it to be addressed at the table with everybody, or whatever holiday event you find yourself at. Another thing that I have leaned into when I'm not feeling grateful in the like hashtag #faith, family, health way is small things. So when the big things in your life are going poorly, it can be helpful to feel glad for the warmth of the sun on your face, or how cozy your slippers are, or that YouTube channel that does the live fireplace because you don't have a fireplace in your house. I use that all the time. So those small, small things are sometimes all I can muster up in a season where it's difficult and I'm not feeling grateful for the big things. And sometimes that can be enough to be an attitude adjustment, at least to get through the holiday or to remind yourself of what you do have.
Ella 19:47
Yeah, I really like that you made that point, Kayla, because I remember so many times throughout everything that I went through where some days, like, I was just grateful that I could get out of bed. Like that's just the reality of going through something like cancer. And I think it's important to acknowledge that, too, right? That some days it's just the smallest little things that really bring you joy and that you can be the most grateful for.
Kayla 20:18
So we hope that you all have the best Thanksgiving available to you. We'll continue to be here, navigating our way through upcoming holidays, and how going through something difficult can kind of change them, but also still bring the joy and the goodness too. So thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next week.