Episode 47: Guest Episode with our Husbands
Today we are joined by our two favorite people: our husbands. For the last year they’ve supported us as we record the podcast weekly, and for years before that they supported us through cancer and its aftermath. Today we get to hear how cancer has affected their lives, too.
SHOW NOTES
Sources and Further Reading:
You can reach out to us here with questions, feedback, or to share your story
Dr. Kristin Long’s sibling support research
TRANSCRIPT
Kayla 0:09
You're listening to the My Sister’s Cancer podcast. I'm Kayla Crum, registered nurse and writer.
Ella 0:15
And I'm Ella Beckett, social worker and cancer survivor.
Kayla 0:20
We're sisters on a mission to care for the cancer community through the sharing of real life stories, a sprinkle of sass, and lots of support.
Ella 0:28
Join us in a new kind of pity party. It's a pity so many of us carry the heavy burden of cancer alone. So let's make it a party and carry it together.
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Kayla 0:42
Welcome back to the My Sister's Cancer podcast. This is your co-host, Kayla Crum, here as always with my sister Ella Beckett. And today we have two very special guests with us who you've heard mentioned before, but I don't even think by name. We have our husbands on the show today. So as we're wrapping up our one year of doing this show, we thought that now would be a good time to have our husbands on to reflect on the way that Ella’s cancer experience and other experiences they've had in life have affected them, because one of the big points of this show has been that a cancer experience has a ripple effect and doesn't just affect the person who is diagnosed. So we have Josh and Jon on today. Josh, why don't you start us off and introduce yourself, tell us how you met me and a little bit about you.
Josh 1:39
Hi, I'm Josh, Kayla's husband. We actually met back in high school. I guess we started dating back in high school, that is. But we met back in youth group when her parents were our middle school counselors. So we've known each other a long time, but really started dating in high school and through college. I'm a cloud engineer, so it's like a software developer, but specializing in cloud services. I do Amazon Web Services for my role.
Kayla 2:13
And I just want to brag here and say he does not do my technical work for me on this show, but he definitely helped me research when I was starting this podcast and make some decisions. But I do all the editing myself. So he's a helpful go-to. But in case you've been wondering if we've not been giving him credit this whole time, that's not true.
Josh 2:35
No, it's all her on the technical end for the show.
Kayla 2:38
Yeah. And how about: what's two things you like to do for fun?
Josh 2:42
I really enjoy keeping fish; working on my fish tank. It's pretty therapeutic and it's down in my home office, so I get to spend a lot of time down there. And I also just enjoy anything with computers, building computers, playing video games, working on side projects, things like that.
Kayla 3:00
And Jon, shocking, I'm going to ask you the same questions. Why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners?
Jon 3:05
Yeah, I'm Jon, I'm Ella’s husband, and we met in 2018 at a cancer support group. I work for a local television station, and I'm on their lifestyle show as a videographer. So I'm behind the scenes, which is how I like it.
Kayla 3:22
Yeah, we could have made this a whole video show, like on YouTube, I guess, and tap some of your skills too. And then, let's see… Oh, two things you do for fun.
Jon 3:34
So I love all things sports. I love to watch sports, I love to play sports; and then just spend time with my nieces and nephew because they're amazing and I love them so much. I can't wait to add another one soon.
Kayla 3:46
Yes. Us too.
Ella 3:49
So now that our listeners are somewhat familiar with you guys, I thought we could start talking about cancer and how it's affected all of our lives. Jon, I would love first if you could kind of share with us a little bit about your cancer experience as much as you're comfortable sharing. I think that we've shared this on the show before that Jon is also a cancer survivor, and as he just said, we met at a cancer support group. So obviously cancer has been a big theme in both of our lives and in our relationships. So I guess we could start there and just kind of hear a little bit of your story.
Jon 4:26
Of course. So I started experiencing these weird—I call them episodes, in 2014, the summer of 2014, where I would get nauseous, dizzy, a strong sensation of déjà vu and fast forward, I think those were seizures. Because in 2015 I had a seizure that knocked me out and I went to the hospital for a few days, and they did all of these tests and they didn't know what it was. And I think a few weeks after I was in the hospital, they did an MRI and they found a brain tumor. And so they could tell right off the bat that it wasn't super aggressive. So they found it in the spring of 2015. And then I had a craniotomy in July of 2015. They removed most of the tumor, but it was too dangerous to remove all of it. Uh, and then I did 30 treatments of radiation, followed by a year of cyclic oral chemotherapy.
Ella 5:25
And what was your experience with cancer before you had cancer? Did you have people in your life that had had cancer before?
Jon 5:33
I did, but I wasn't super intertwined. My dad's dad, my grandpa, had a blood cancer and I was a freshman. I think I was a freshman or a sophomore in high school and this was back in 2004 or 5. And, uh, so I wasn't really intact. I think they purposely kept us away from that. Like we knew Grandpa was sick. I don't even know if I knew it was cancer as a teenage boy. Uh, so other than that, really not too much experience with friends or family.
Ella 6:08
Mhm. So then what was that like for you being thrust into the cancer world as a young adult?
Jon 6:17
It was jarring. It obviously came out of nowhere. There were signs that I should have addressed, but I thought, “Oh, I'm fine.” Initially I thought I was just dehydrated, so, big mistake. Yeah. Listen to your body. But yeah, it was extremely surprising. And then I never really knew it was cancer until post-surgery. My dad was convinced that it wasn't cancer, and I thought it was. And so I clearly asked my neuro-oncologist and, yes, “You have brain cancer.” And, uh, I think from the beginning I was extremely optimistic. Positive, like, realistic and optimistic. Like, I wasn't thinking, “Oh, this is going to just disappear.” I believe in miracles, but I'm also—I believe in science. And, um, but I was supported by an amazing group of family and friends and church, and my work was super supportive. And I, I took the attitude of: bring it on, let's go.
Ella 7:25
Would you say that you appreciated the battle language that we've talked about before on the show?
Jon 7:31
Yeah. So I'm guilty of the battle language. Like let's fight, let's beat this. And I didn't really think about that. And after meeting you and just learning a lot and getting a perspective of another young person with cancer, it's like, oh, I didn't choose this. And you don't have to view it as a battle.
Ella 7:58
But the reason I ask that is because we've said before, like, some people find that language really helpful. So I think it's important to kind of hold space for that too, if you do find that metaphor helpful for sure.
Jon 8:11
Yeah I think I did, and maybe I still do because I still have the brain cancer.
Kayla 8:17
Mhm. Huh. Yeah. With your sports interests that make sense to me; that like fighting and winning and all of that would like resonate with you. Whereas me and Ella with our like ballet, musical theater background, that just like wasn't as much of a thing for us to lean into.
Jon 8:35
Understandable.
Kayla 8:37
But you just said, um, that you still have the cancer. So do you want to define that a little bit for our audience?
Jon 8:43
Yeah. So typically brain cancer, you—it can't be cured. I think in some situations and some types of tumors and depending on location and surgery, like maybe it can be. But like I said, my surgery removed about 80% because it was too dangerous to remove everything. So there's tumor still in there. And the radiation and chemotherapy has done a great job of essentially keeping that under control. There hasn't really been any growth in that area. So you know, I say I'm a cancer survivor, because a good friend who had cancer as a child told me, “Every day you live, you survive.” So I knew myself as a cancer survivor, even though it's still in there hanging out.
Kayla 9:29
Mhm. Yeah, I think that's great. We're in this survivorship season of the podcast kind of exploring that idea, and I think it can mean a lot of different things to different people. So I like that thing that your friend said; that's really cool. Thanks for sharing all of that. I know that even years later, it's like a lot to think back on. So yeah, we appreciate that. Josh, your first experience with cancer, I'm guessing, is my sister's. Did you have anyone in your life before my sister was diagnosed that had cancer?
Josh 10:06
Not really that I can remember. I lost my dad's dad, my grandpa, to pancreatic cancer. I was only about four years old though, so my memory of him is a combination of pictures, videos, and maybe a brief flash of memory from here or there. So I don't really remember him super well, but that was probably my first experience before Ella.
Kayla 10:34
Mhm. Yeah. And hearing both of you talk about, like, brain cancer and then pancreatic, it's like it just reminds me how narrow of a view the scope of our podcast has even touched. Like blood cancer like lymphoma is so different from either of those other cancers. And yeah, it's such a variable, complex world. So even if you could remember more about your grandpa's experience, I'm sure it would be really different from Ella's. But just from a timeline perspective, I've mentioned on the show before that Ella got diagnosed with cancer two weeks after you and I got engaged, so I'm just curious what that was like for you, because at the time, obviously, like, my world felt like it was caving in. My sister had cancer. We were in college, we were young. This was coming out of nowhere. And honestly, I don't think I really ever asked you like, “Are you okay? How is this affecting you?” Because you were another ring out, right? So do you have any memories of that time?
Josh 11:34
Yeah I do. I was kind of like a support person for a support person. You know, a couple rings removed. So I remember there were some tough nights, some breakdowns that you had. And, you know, it was tricky to balance the excitement for the future, but also the uncertainty of the future for your sister. And it was kind of like a roller coaster, especially when it came to planning the wedding. I remember even just dress shopping, trying to make accommodations for Ella to be able to go along with you. It was kind of like a part of any wedding planning that involved the maid of honor or even your mom. So yeah, it was—it was tricky to balance that. And we were really young; I think we were 20. So… I mean there's just a lot going on. I was in college. You were working a new job. Well no, actually you were studying for the NCLEX. Hadn't even—
Kayla 12:43
I was still in college.
Josh 12:44
Still in college, right?
Kayla 12:45
Yeah. It gets confusing because, yeah, she relapsed so quickly. But, yeah, I was still in nursing school that first time.
Josh 12:52
Yeah. So there was just a lot going on and just a lot of stresses in different areas of life.
Kayla 12:59
Do you feel like you got any support from anybody during that time? Like did anyone ask you how you were doing or no, being like, several people removed?
Josh 13:11
Honestly, no, but I don't—I don't blame or resent anybody for not checking in on me. They mostly asked, you know, “How's Ella doing.” They didn't even really ask about Kayla to be honest. It was updates about Ella. And you know, I was happy to give them with the information that was publicly available and you were comfortable sharing. But yeah, no one was even really asking about Kayla. But we were also planning the wedding, so questions about her were more in relation to the wedding planning and how it was going.
Kayla 13:47
Yeah, I'm glad you don't have any like, hard feelings about that. I'm just thinking back, like, that was a lot for like a 20-year-old guy in college to to deal with. And part of what we've talked about on this podcast is like, supporting the supporters. So yeah, that's interesting to hear. And I had a similar experience where you were supportive of me, but other than that, there was like one or two faithful people and everyone else that was like, “How's Ella? Or how's the wedding?” Right? So, um, and I think that's natural, but like, we're trying to raise a little awareness that like the supporters need support too, so thanks for sharing that perspective. I guess we could just segue that right into Ella’s second experience with cancer when she relapsed. So like we said, two weeks after we got engaged, she got diagnosed the first time. And then I think it was about fourish weeks or five, something like that, after our wedding, she relapsed. So at that point, we were newly married, living in a new apartment in a different town. He was still in college, and I was—I literally think it was the week I started my job as a nurse that you technically got diagnosed; like relapsed. Like we had had suspicions for a couple of weeks. And then I think I've talked about this on the show before, but I have this weird memory of going to a Mexican restaurant for my birthday, because it was also that week that was like my second day of work. So I was doing all that orientation stuff, and it was my birthday, and you and Mom and Dad met us at this Mexican restaurant by our new apartment to celebrate both my job and my birthday. But you had had a biopsy that day, so you had, like, this big bandage on your neck. And we were just, like, celebrating, but also like, waiting for those results. So that's like a vivid, weird memory for me. Somehow I still like margaritas and Mexican food. Yeah, but Josh, I know looking back at that time, then when we were married and I was working night shift, I definitely didn't support you at all. It was like a one-way situation. Um, and I would just love to hear whatever you want to share about that time, what you wish maybe could have been different or what did help.
Josh 16:05
Yeah, that was definitely a tough time in life. We were married for not even a month. I had never lived away from home, so I was adjusting to being out on my own and for a while, I really was on my own. Kayla and I were like passing ships because she worked nights and, you know, I worked evenings and weekends and went to school during the day. So I certainly didn't feel supported by anyone and felt very kind of alone. Yeah, I think during that time, it would have been helpful for people to reach out just… more than they did. Even not just from a cancer perspective, but I was also the first of my friends to get married. So it was difficult to commiserate, but I also didn't have any friends with siblings of cancer or who were really even familiar with the world of it. So I don't think anyone would have even thought that I might have needed support in that area. And again, whenever people were asking about myself or Kayla, it was about, you know, “How's the apartment? How's life? How's her new job?” And then, you know “Oh, also, how's Ella?” Um, people asked a lot less, actually. I think it was, I don't know, you've probably talked about this before, but with the relapse, it seemed like less people brought it up or reached out…
Kayla 17:46
Just less shocking, I think, to everyone's brain the second time. And I just—when it goes on longer and longer, like, it's harder for people to remember because we're all busy in our own lives. But yeah, that sounds like a hard time. I do want to say, I think that one good thing that came out of this—sometimes we joke that we, like, jumped ahead to like a midlife marriage crisis in, like, the first six months of marriage. Um, and it wasn't pretty for that first year as far as, like, we didn't have great coping skills. I certainly didn't; or like, communication skills as a couple. Um, I think going through that though ultimately made us stronger and made us more willing to seek help. So like, yeah, go get therapy and things like that and talk out our problems. So it's weird because like, we'll never know how it would have gone otherwise. It's that whole thing of like, I'm not thankful it happened but like good things came of it.
Josh 18:51
Yeah. We got the rough patch out of the way early.
Kayla 18:53
Yeah. Knock on wood.
Josh 18:56
Yeah, a lot of growth in that first year for sure.
Kayla 18:58
Yeah. And no matter what we encounter in the future, like we have those skills now in a way that I think sometimes people don't have to build for a lot of years.
Ella 19:07
Yeah. Thanks so much for sharing that, Josh, and for your perspective too, Kayla. I think that's really impressive and mature to be able to see the good that can come out of hard times and to acknowledge it. Circling back to you, Jon, we were just talking a lot about my relapse. Um, and, you know, you were saying earlier how brain cancer is really different, um, in that it's more stable or dormant and then it often can creep back up or start growing again. And so you actually experienced a relapse of sorts as well. So for your first cancer experience I wasn't there; I didn't know you yet. But then, I think it was about six months into our marriage then that you went through cancer treatment again. Um, and we did kind of walk through that together and I guess I would just love to hear from your perspective, kind of what that experience was like for you.
Jon 20:17
Very bitter and a little bit sweet, I think. I think it's another level of support to have your person there; and my person for life. And then I also get your family, right. And I just love your family. They have been so supportive and loving and going through your experience, I think, like Kayla was saying, like it kind of equips you. And so I had my original support system. And then I had your entire support system, not just your family, but your entire support system. But I think the key was you having you, and I know we say that we didn't want each other to be around the first time. But I wish I could have been there for you. But I think—I don't want to say it was easier, but maybe it was easier because I had done everything that I did. I had more radiation, I had more chemo. And so I was familiar with the treatment. But it's kind of jarring because everything's been stable and good for so long. And then all of a sudden, oh, there's this new spot on your brain. But yeah, I'm just grateful to have the DeWyn family and all the Crum families and it's made it a little bit easier, I think.
Ella 12:43
Thanks for sharing that.
Jon 12:45
You're welcome.
Ella 21:46
Yeah, I think it's really interesting that, like, neither of us were there for each other's first cancer experience. And you weren't there for my second either. And so we've had a lot of conversations about how like, that was just such a big part of our life, obviously, and like really rocked our world. But then we weren't there to, like, experience it with each other. But then if we had never had cancer, we would never have attended a cancer support group, so we probably never would have met each other. So it's just this weird thing.
Jon 22:22
That's for sure.
Kayla 22:26
But yeah, I'm—I'm curious what it felt like to be thrust into the role of supporter. And up until that point, you obviously had walked plenty of cancer hills and valleys, but you were the cancer patient, so was that jarring for you?
Ella 22:43
You know, yeah, I think it was really weird for me. I think one of the main things that I felt and learned throughout that experience was just a deeper empathy for all of you, right? Like the people who love me so fiercely and had to walk with me through that… like I had never really put myself fully in any of your shoes and how that experience was for all of you. But then when I was kind of thrown into it and, you know, had to be the supporter, I think it really just opened my eyes a lot and really… I don't know. I feel like in some ways it helped me know the people in my life better because I had a better understanding of what it might have been like for everyone, if that makes sense.
Jon 23:38
I just want to say thank you for being there the second time around. Uh, the first time treatment wasn't too crazy. I think back in 2015 and ‘16, radiation wiped me out towards the end of it and after it, I was just extremely tired, which I thought, I'll take just being tired. Right? I'll sleep all night and then for 3 or 4 hours a day, like that's not too bad. But the second time I had the more… radiation and chemo, radiation especially really messed with my like digestive system and my stomach. And I just didn't feel good. And I was—I can remember clearly—and I also got COVID when I was having radiation—but I, I was just on the couch like all the time. And I didn't have to be, but I think just how I felt, I was just there on the couch and I didn't really help around the house too much. And so I just thank you for being the best wife ever.
Ella 24:38
Well, that's very kind. You're welcome. As you were just talking, I was thinking, too, about Kayla and Josh, what you guys were kind of reflecting about, like, having to endure that trial so early on in your marriage and how that built a firm foundation. I think very similarly over here too, like, I don't think we would be as strong of a couple or as communicative if we hadn't had to walk through some pretty tough stuff in the first few years of our marriage.
Kayla 25:11
Yeah, I want to hold space for the people whose marriages fell apart in similar situations. Just because I'm… I often ask Josh, I'm like, what amount of marriage is luck and what amount of marriage is work? And there's no real answer to that because right, like, it takes both of you being committed to leaning into that growth. And so, like, if you're the partner who is trying to lean into that growth and the other one won't, I would imagine that's like super painful. And I know that cancer does pull marriages apart, too. So we are super grateful and like, have grown; like we've been sharing for how our marriages came out the other side and continue to endure for all of this. But, um, I guess I just wanted to say, I know that's not everybody's experience and hold space for that. But speaking of like, relationships, I guess as much as you guys are comfortable sharing, I kind of wondered when you guys met, like you weren't going to cancer support group—it wasn't like a singles group, like you weren’t, um, it wasn't like a speed dating thing. It was just like a regular support group. And we've talked on this show about, like, how life is precarious and not guaranteed. And so both of you kind of having this like, potential unknown future, like, did that influence, like, you looking for your lifetime partner? Like how did that play into your like budding relationship as you got to know each other?
Jon 26:49
My entire life, I just wanted a wife and a family and yeah, I think that is a reality. Right? Like, oh, you have brain cancer. And I was in my late 20s. So, I mean, I already wanted a wife, but then, oh, you have cancer. So when it came to dating, I was always very open and honest. And I would always give the out, right. Like, if you don't want to pursue this further, if you're not interested, you're just—get out of jail free card. But I don't think I was going to that cancer support group to find the one. I think it worked out that way.
Ella 27:31
The first thing that came to my mind is that when we first started talking over Facebook Messenger, mind you, like we were in the seventh grade. I mean, um, I remember pretty clearly, like we started getting into deep stuff pretty fast. I mean, when you meet at a cancer support group, like you kind of just are already there, right? Like you're already at the deeper level. Um, you're not just talking about the weather and stuff. So I just have clear memories of, like when we started going a little bit deeper, Jon very smoothly was like, “Well, I'm an old man. Like, I prefer to talk over the phone. Like what's your number?”
Jon 28:13
Okay this was over Messenger. You can't know my tone of voice. [laughter]
Ella 28:17
True. Okay. Just saying. [laughter] But with that being said, I do remember then we had a phone conversation that was like probably over two hours long. And Jon expressed a lot about how, you know, he was given a certain prognosis, and he felt like that kind of held him back in relationships and that he didn't want to, you know, drag that into a potential exciting thing. And so I just remember, like, from the beginning, I was like, that doesn't matter to me. Like, I don't, I mean, like, I appreciated him like acknowledging that right from the beginning. But like we've said on this show before and I think, Kayla, you brought up this exact example, like I've said, like any of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow. Like, I don't think that needs to dampen our possibility of experiencing joy in a relationship, if that makes sense.
Kayla 29:17
And yeah, I was more hesitant than you when I found out you were dating a guy with brain cancer. I was like, that's interesting. Like, you sure you want to sign up for that? And then I always say, I'm so glad, Jon was just like the wonderful human that he is, because if he was even, like, mediocre, I would probably have been like, this is not worth the pain, you know, like the potential future pain. But yeah, you were right though, like, none of us knows. And I'm glad you guys took the plunge anyway.
Jon 29:49
Yeah, but I'm going to be here till I'm 100 years old, so that’s settled.
Kayla 29:53
Perfect. So one thing I wanted to ask you, Josh, is about your sibling experience. It's not related to cancer, but you had a sibling who had a chronic illness when you were a kid. And so you and I have talked about just the way that that affects family dynamics and your experience of life when you have a sibling going through something hard for years at a time. And so it's interesting that we both have that experience, but, you know, very different times in our lives. And I just wonder if you wanted to share anything about that.
Josh 30:30
Yeah, it was pretty tough. My younger brother had but mostly grew out of a chronic illness that really affected all our lives, especially my mom. They went to a lot of doctor’s appointments and had to see a lot of specialists, and they were having a hard time figuring out what he even had. So they eventually found Cincinnati Children's Hospital that was able to diagnose him and get him some relief. But it was really tricky. I was pretty young at the time. Not very mature. I went to a lot of doctor's appointments. I went with them to Cincinnati once. It was just a lot of time, and it was hard to see him so sick so frequently. For a number of years it was daily. He was just in rough shape. So it was really difficult to see him going through that, and Jon might be able to relate to this a little bit though, but like, they don't always know what they can and can't do for you. Like there’s not really a—correct me if I'm wrong but there wasn't a definite plan for him or steps. It was like, we’ll try this, we'll try that. We'll look at this, we'll talk to this person. Lots of back and forth and waiting and man, I found out later my mom spent so much time fighting with insurance because going across state lines and what a mess that was. Um, yeah. It was, you know, tough for me, though. I'm a pretty independent person by nature, but it definitely felt like I had to keep myself busy and entertained. And, you know, my parents; I don't harbor any resentment, but they just had their hands full and it was hard for everybody. But I'm glad he's doing a lot better now, and it's manageable and doesn't even affect him most days anymore.
Kayla 32:58
Yeah. Thanks for sharing all that. I can't imagine going through what I did with Ella with like, a child's level of coping skills, because I didn't even have that many as a college student. And I would dare say yours lasted even longer. I mean, it was like years of unknowns. We've said on this podcast before, like, Ella in a weird way was lucky in that we had a plan. Like you were just saying, like they're like, here's what we do for Hodgkin's lymphoma. And then when plan A didn't work, they had plan B, and plan B has worked so far. Um, and there was never a lot of like, “I don't know. Let's consult this person and this and that.” So yeah, that unknown is a hard space to live in. One thing I was thinking when we were talking both earlier and now, and something we've talked about on this podcast before, is like accommodations at work or school. So like thinking back to when we were newlyweds, I wish that you and I both had asked for more specific, like, workplace and for you college accommodations. Like when your life is in turmoil like that, most places will work with you to an extent, like maybe even just give you more tardies or like late assignments, more flexible time off from work. Or as a kid even thinking about you in school, I'm sure like if you ever had to go out of town for your brother's health, your elementary school teachers like sent along your homework or whatever. But I just wish there was like a comprehensive school program for even just the siblings of sick kids. I know that Dr. Kristen Long, who was on NPR with us, is trying to start something like that. Um, for not just cancer, but any sort of chronic illness to, like, get in the schools and have like social work support and groups for siblings, kids who are struggling with illnesses, which probably would have been a cool intervention had you had it 20 years ago.
Ella 35:08
So as we start to wrap up here, one thing that I wanted to make sure to ask is: Kayla and I have been at this making our podcast for almost a year now, and I would love to hear from your perspective, husbands, maybe first, what was your reaction when you kind of first found out we wanted to do this project? And then second, what has it been like as we've recorded every week? So, Jon, I'm going to throw it over to you first.
Jon 35:42
I was excited. I was really thrilled for you guys. I thought it was a great idea. And you both have the knowledge, the experience and just the heart for this type of thing. And I was 100% on board and I think it's gone extremely well. You were on NPR, I mean, and… I will say on the Tuesday nights or whenever you record, I miss you. And that's the $5 movie night at Celebration Cinema. So I have gone to a couple by myself, I won't lie, but. [laughter] No, I think it's just been amazing. I could do better at listening to every episode. But, I'm just proud of you guys. I think what you're doing is very intimate, and you're going over this as sisters, and you've had people on with similar or even different experiences. And I think you're helping people, whether it's one or 1 million, you're helping people. And I love you guys and I'm thankful for you. And thanks for doing this podcast.
Ella 36:49
Wow. Thank you so much. What about you, Josh?
Kayla 36:53
Wow. Josh. You have to follow that.
Josh 36:56
Yeah. How do I follow that up? Yeah. I'll just, I'll agree with Jon. I'm glad the two of you are able to do this. And I think it's a really neat idea. As we've kind of gone back and forth today it’s really kind of sunk in how little support there is for siblings or any other support people of those with cancer. So it's cool that you're able to fill that gap and, you know, reach people around the world. And like Jon said, be on NPR, which is awesome. I'm glad it's worked out so well. Um, I could also be a little bit better about listening to all the episodes. Tuesday nights are my scary movie night. Kayla doesn’t like scary movies so that's what I do when she records. [laughter]
Kayla 37:49
And I wonder, Josh, I wrestled with this idea for years. And before it became a podcast, like, I was writing poems and essays way back in our apartment. And then I toyed with the idea of trying to write a book, and then I was like, I don't think you can really write a book with no internet presence at all these days. So I just want to thank you for supporting me through all the ways this idea, like, percolated over probably like four years until it became a podcast, when my sister—and I think this is what it was meant to be, at least its first iteration was meant to be a podcast and to have Ella's voice and not just mine. Um, and I also hope that it's maybe eased a lot of my constant processing of the experience with you.
Josh 38:38
Yeah, it's definitely taken a little bit of the burden off of my shoulders, but I'm also glad that you two have stayed so close. I doubt that every, you know, pair of siblings would be able to get through a tough family situation like this and still be so close, but also be willing to talk about it every week and put themselves out there together. So I'm glad that you're on the same page about it. And still, you know, such great sisters and friends.
Kayla 39:16
Me too.
Ella 39:18
Me three.
Jon 39:19
Me four.
Ella 39:21
Well, thank you so much Jon and Josh, for not only being on this episode, but also just for your support for us over the past year of recording, but also just in life. Obviously, we're very grateful for both of you. And again, just so glad that you could join us today. And so next week you'll be getting to hear from two other very important people in our life, our mom and dad. Looking forward to that conversation with them next week. But until then, we hope that you have a great week.