Episode 50: Farewell for Now
Today marks our 50th and final episode! We’ve been creating the My Sister’s Cancer podcast for a year. Like we always say, it’s a pity so many of us carry the heavy burden of cancer alone, so let’s make it a party and carry it together. Thanks for carrying it with us this past year.
SHOW NOTES
Sources and Further Reading:
You can reach out to us here with questions, feedback, or to share your story
Episodes Mentioned:
If you liked this one, you might like Nora McInerny’s work
Parenting Tweens through Cancer - Guest Episode with Trish Levoit
TRANSCRIPT
Kayla 0:09
You're listening to the My Sister’s Cancer podcast. I'm Kayla Crum, registered nurse and writer.
Ella 0:15
And I'm Ella Beckett, social worker and cancer survivor.
Kayla 0:20
We're sisters on a mission to care for the cancer community through the sharing of real life stories, a sprinkle of sass, and lots of support.
Ella 0:28
Join us in a new kind of pity party. It's a pity so many of us carry the heavy burden of cancer alone. So let's make it a party and carry it together.
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Ella 0:42
Welcome back to the My Sister's Cancer podcast. We are so glad that you're here. This is your co-host Ella Beckett, here as always with my sister, Kayla Crum. This is a very bittersweet opening because as far as we know, and for now, this is our last episode of the podcast. So for those of you that might not remember, Kayla is going to have her baby very soon here and she will be going on maternity leave. And I am also heading into an even busier season of grad school, with my internship starting up in the fall. So you know, we've finished a full calendar year of the podcast, and with these big life events coming up, it just seemed like the right time to wrap this up here and set it aside for now. So like we said earlier, that's not to say that we'll never do anything again, but this is living as a complete work for now. So we just wanted to take some time today to take a look back and highlight kind of where we've been, some of the things that we've discussed, and just some of our reflections on the past year together here at the podcast. We do have a few housekeeping details to kind of get out of the way here at the beginning. So I'm going to throw it over to you, Kayla, to share with the listeners about some of that.
Kayla 2:17
Yeah. Thanks for opening our last episode. I can't really believe that that's true. In some ways, it feels like we've been doing this forever and in some ways, it feels like we just started. So thank you to all of you listeners. I'm sure we'll say this all at the end, too, but it's been so cool to meet new people and build a little community around this. And we really appreciate everyone's like, thoughtful interactions and questions and things like that along the way. So. Housekeeping. Like Ella said, this will live as a complete work, so the podcast itself is not going anywhere. All 50 episodes will be available wherever you currently listen to your podcasts indefinitely. You know, I guess I can't speak for ten years from now because of technology, but as far as we know, for as long as we know, this will still be in your podcast player. So feel free to, you know, catch up on ones you missed, share it with, you know, a friend who gets diagnosed or something. Um, they can go back and listen to all of them and that's not going anywhere. Same thing goes for our website. I'm going to leave that up and live. So my mysisterscancer.co is going to be online for the foreseeable future. That has a podcast tab with a page for each episode with resources and a full transcript. And it additionally has poems and essays and more resources based on the season of cancer you're in. So that's going to stay as well. Um, the contact page on there, I'm going to put up some sort of message that I will be, you know, on maternity leave until September, so you might not get an answer just temporarily while I'm on that maternity leave. But after that, it will go back to getting an email back from me if you reach out. And the only thing that's really shutting down is our Patreon. So we super duper appreciate those of you who have financially been supporting this work. You've been basically paying for us to have the software and hosting technology to put one of these episodes out every week, which we really appreciate. And we are going to turn that off at the end of May. So May should be your last payment that you'll see come out of your card or however you're paying for that. And in order to truly turn that off, instead of just pause it, we're going to have to take down our Patreon page as well. So luckily there's not a ton of separate bonus content on there. But just so you know, as a listener, you will not be able to access that page anymore at all. And that's just so that it doesn't automatically turn on after a month pause or two and start charging you again, because that wouldn't feel fair since we're not producing new episodes. So thank you, thank you, thank you for your financial support along the way. And that is something we won't need anymore after May. So that, I think, is it for housekeeping and what we're going to do today, like Ella said, is a look back. So we're going to kind of move through those seasons that we've been doing: diagnosis being summer, treatment being autumn, isolation winter, and survivorship spring. So what we thought we'd do is look at the top two most downloaded episodes from each season, and just kind of use that as a springboard to discuss the season as a whole and what we found talking through it upon reflection and, you know, things like that. So, Ella, why don't you share with the listeners the top two episodes from Diagnosis season?
Ella 6:20
So our most downloaded episodes in this first season was The Diagnosis, and it was closely followed by The Response. So I believe—was this our very first episode, was Diagnosis, Kayla?
Kayla 6:35
Yeah. And then The Response was number three, I believe.
Ella 6:38
Okay. So I have to say, just right off the bat, that does not surprise me that our first episode was the most downloaded. I mean, I think that's somewhat typical for podcasting in general. But I also think because that literally encapsulates like what the whole season is about is like, what's the diagnosis story and what does that feel like, as, you know, someone who is receiving that. So I mean, I think that's just a huge reason that that one probably was the most accessed; the top one.
Kayla 7:16
Yeah. I think you call out a good point. Some of these are just going to be based on, like, timing. So like most podcasts, their most downloaded episode is going to be their first episode ever. But like you said too, I can just imagine if someone searching like, “cancer diagnosis,” this is going to be the most relevant episode to them. And right, like we all are drawn to a juicy story for lack of a better word. And so that first episode where we sort of unpacked what went down and how we found out, I think even for people in our own lives, that was probably like an inside look that they hadn't had before. I'm curious for you… I mean, we were still brand new to this. I can't even bring it all back, really. And obviously we had been talking about doing this and working up to it for months by that point. But was it hard for you in general during the diagnosis season to like, go back there mentally? Did you find that hard or… I'm curious how that even stacks up to like, other seasons that we've covered.
Ella 8:21
I wouldn't say that it was challenging to be in that space mentally. I think for me sometimes, like we just said on the previous episode, like sometimes just talking through your experience can actually be a really helpful thing. And I think the further that you get out from your diagnosis and your cancer experience, at least in my experience, it's like I have less and less opportunity to talk about it, if that makes sense, right? We've talked about this, how it kind of becomes less of your identity, and that's a good thing. But I think it also… there's not as much space or room in your day to day life to even talk about that experience. So I guess to answer your question, like, I find it somewhat therapeutic and helpful to even try to remember back and relay those details and kind of talk through some of that.
Kayla 9:17
It's been interesting, too, when you and I have like, different memories, even just of like factual stuff like that. We're still not sure what happened. And that just goes to show, like when you're going through a trauma or something difficult, your brain does not file memory away in the same way it does in normal life. And so that was interesting to me, particularly in the diagnosis season, that sometimes we just had like very different perceptions of stuff that happened. And that's normal, I think, in these types of scenarios. I also like how the second most downloaded diagnosis season episode is The Response, because I can see where that… I mean, that one is one of my favorites. We kind of talk about like once you make it public and like everyone and their second cousin knows all the different ways people respond in person on social media, the people that pretend it never happened and don't bring it up. So that episode… it was healing for me, I think, to get some of those complaints off my chest. And again, I hope we—I haven't listened to that episode recently. I hope we had some grace interwoven in there, and I think we did. I think we try to do that on this podcast in general, but, I can see where someone seeking support through a cancer podcast would want to listen to, okay, how did people respond to this girl's diagnosis? Because I'm not loving how they're responding to mine, that kind of thing.
Ella 10:49
The things people say.
Kayla 10:51
Mhm. Mhm. If you're nodding along and that episode, The Response, really did it for you and resonated with you, you might like the work of Nora McInerney. She was a young widow of her husband who died of cancer, I think in their 20s, and has written a memoir about it, and since then, other books and other podcasts, one of which was called “Terrible, Thanks for Asking.” So you get an idea of like the vibe. And I think that is similar to our episode, The Response. Like she just calls out, like, the way that people say the darndest things and has sort of like a dry sense of humor about it all. So if that episode resonated with you, you might want to follow up and check out Nora. So we'll link to her in the show notes.
Ella 11:39
Was it hard for you to revisit the details of my diagnosis?
Kayla 11:44
I don't think so, because by the time we got to like, recording this podcast, I had been like writing poems and essays and making the website for like a year already, almost. So I think I was just like already there and kind of dealing with it. I think maybe as we go on, it actually got harder sometimes to hear your perspective, just because I had dealt with a lot of like how it was for me, but hearing certain things from you about how your treatment or your transplant felt was something hard. But yeah, diagnosis in particular, not so much for me for some reason. So for the next season, treatment/autumn—which we use that metaphor because treatment often feels like a slow dying of your cells, which it is. And you lose your hair like we lose the leaves on the trees, and everything's kind of getting darker and colder it's a tough time. I know a lot of us are fall or autumn lovers for the beautiful leaves and the pumpkin spice lattes. But really, fall is nature's great dying and like, bedding down for a season of rest. So the two most popular episodes from that season were The Power of Presence and Have You Tried Essential Oils? And I just want to call out here that these downloads were probably affected—not probably; they were affected by our feature on NPR, which was such a huge honor. We were on this little three minute feature on NPR Morning Edition, and it came out between these two episodes. So I was looking at the dates, and The Power of Presence would have been like the most recent episode available when we aired on NPR. And then the next one was, Have You Tried Essential Oils? So those are like our top, top episodes ever because of them. But at the same time, I don't know. Obviously it's skewed, but I like to think that those are two topics that resonate too, you know? The Power of Presence being about, there's not a lot to do sometimes other than just be there with somebody. And then similar to what we talked about in diagnosis with The Response, Have You Tried Essential Oils? was kind of about the things people say and the things people think they know and want to fix your problems with. Like if you just drink these green smoothies, your cancer will go away. So. I guess in retrospect, I'm kind of glad or proud that those two episodes happened to be the ones that were available when we went live on NPR—not live when we aired on NPR, because we recorded that and had no idea when it would come out. They were just kind of like, yeah, we'll let you know. And then we found out, like the day before or the morning of or something. So I don't know. How does that hit you?
Ella 14:57
Well yeah, I mean, I think what you said is totally true. Obviously I think the NPR feature had a huge factor in that, but I really do think that those were two of our stronger episodes in that season too. I loved the Have You Tried Essential Oils? I loved recording that, because I think similarly to what you were saying about The Response episode, there's something really helpful about just calling out, like, what other people do, you know, in a way that like… I don't know. I think that makes you feel seen and understood too, especially if you have also experienced other people, their opinions and their, uh, advice and wisdom, which is often unsolicited and often not actually super helpful.
Kayla 15:46
Yeah. And I think it's empowering in a way. I think that cancer feels like something that's just happening to you, and you lose so much control over your life. Or your loved one, even if it's happening to your loved one, like your life still changes a lot. So when people are just heaping their unsolicited advice on you, you just kind of feel like you're powerless against it. So having a space like a podcast episode or even just writing about it in your journal or whatever you want to do to be like, “Can you believe this was said to me today?” sort of gives you some of your power back and like your voice back when you often feel very vulnerable and powerless. I also am thankful for this season because that NPR feature led us to, well, first, a bigger listening community and second of all, our two guests that came on between our winter and spring seasons. Trish and Jack were both so generous with their stories, and those were really meaningful episodes for us to record and to hear a parent perspective and a spouse perspective. And they came to us from hearing us on NPR. And so I'm really glad for that. And, you know, that doesn't even touch the people that have emailed us and shared a little bit of their story. You know, they weren't featured on our podcast necessarily, but that really helped us connect with a good chunk of our audience. So I'm really glad that we got to be a part of that. Was thinking about the actual treatment hard for you, Ella? Like the physical, like the hair loss and the vomiting. Like, was it hard to go back there when we did those episodes?
Ella 17:40
Yeah, I think in some ways it was a little bit harder than diagnosis. I think what I was saying about how like even talking it through can be helpful. I think that's true even for treatment. But I, I do think sometimes really imagining those things or reliving them even in your mind can be really hard. Um, and like you were saying, right. Like you hearing from my perspective, I think it was hard for me, not specifically necessarily in treatment, but along the way, it was hard for me to hear from your perspective too how… Because I've spent so much time, obviously, reflecting on my own journey through these seasons, right? But I haven't spent as much time thinking about how it impacted you and how it impacted Mom and Dad and all of the people who love me and care about me. So I think at times that was really hard too.
Kayla 18:43
Mmm. Thanks for sharing that. I never want it to be, like, making you feel guilty, because you didn't bring this on. But it is hard to think about how our own suffering ricochets out to those around us.
Ella 19:01
So that brings us into the isolation season of winter. And in this season our most downloaded episodes were Isolating Before It Was Cool and the Transplantaversary. So I guess my first thought is again, similar to what I was saying about the Diagnosis episode being the biggest one of the diagnosis season, I think that's probably true for this too, right? Where the one with isolation in the title—and it's just an interesting title. I mean, I'm sure people are just like, oh, I wonder what this is about. I think that probably had a factor in spiking that a little bit. What are your thoughts?
Kayla 19:46
Yeah, I'm just looking at what was different about these two episodes? Because at first, like on the surface, Isolating Before It Was Cool and Transplantaversary, I was like, I'm not sure what angle we took because they're kind of the same topic in a way, and it sounds like Isolating Before It Was Cool, we really kind of went into the details of what your isolation was like and how, you know, collectively now we all kind of understand sheltering in place and whatever with COVID, but how there's differences after a stem cell transplant and how our family was all too familiar with that. And then Transplantaversary was a little more celebratory because we commemorated your sixth re-birthday on your anniversary of your transplant and went in-depth more on the transplant itself, than the period of isolation. So just to clear that up, because I was even struggling to remember the difference between the two. I think you're right. I think they have interesting titles. I think they were our first winter episodes, and also they were early December. And then I get it. I think people probably check out a little bit over the holidays, which is totally fair. But yeah, I'm glad we were able to share about that time. And I think that bone marrow transplant, as it's more commonly known, has such a—I don't want to say stigma, because it's not like people have negative feelings towards the people who participate in it. But it's definitely been Hollywoodified by movies like “My Sister's Keeper.” I read that book and watched that movie. I'm not hating on it. I just think that, you know, our ideas of what isolation or transplant is actually like have been very much altered by movie depictions of cancer, which we've touched on throughout this podcast, for sure. And so I found it really healing to educate people through those episodes. And hopefully, right, we always say we want to educate and empathize, make the people who've gone through it feel seen. But really, I feel like we leaned into the education piece with these topics and kind of painted a picture for people of what it's really like.
Ella 22:04
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Do you feel like it was hard to go back to the isolation season in particular?
Kayla 22:12
I think yes, because this might have been the hardest one for me, just because when we talked about treatment, obviously you had treatment with your first cancer and your relapse. But we were kind of mostly talking about your first cancer when we did the treatment season, because you had a more traditional, like, chemo cycles, blah, blah, blah, whereas in your relapse everything revolved around getting you to the transplant and then through the transplant. And I had a much harder time swallowing your relapse than I did your first diagnosis. Like accepting it spiritually and emotionally. And I think you seemed a lot more depressed and had like, I have just more memories of you being like, harder to connect with, understandably, throughout your isolation period, that was just a really difficult time for all of us. So I think of all the seasons that might have been a harder one to talk about. I think that's probably part of why we leaned a bit educational, especially for these first couple of episodes, at least for me. On reflection, I can see where I probably went into a little bit of like nurse mode or like explaining mode rather than really go there emotionally. And I hope we did. I think throughout that season we touched on the winter blues and mental health and things like that. But yeah, I think it was hard for me to go back to this season in particular. Was that hard for you too?
Ella 23:49
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. I think if I had to pick one season that was probably even just mentally the hardest to wrap my brain around the episodes and kind of what even tone we wanted to have throughout them, I definitely think that this one was the most difficult for me too.
Kayla 24:11
Well, that brings us to our current season, our final season for now, for the foreseeable future, survivorship and spring. I kind of like that we're framing this as like: we think we're done, but we're not sure what this might turn into later because that's kind of just what cancer survivorship is. It's like we think you're good. Also you're always going to have after effects and you're always going to have mental health effects. And like maybe we'll see you later. So it feels a little fitting that we're not, you know, necessarily closing the book on this once and for all, but sort of saying we're done for now. We'll see what the future holds. Because of the way our analytics work, we don't have data on our most downloaded episodes yet for this season. So I thought instead we would kind of talk about the fact that we covered a lot of heavy stuff in this spring season. And it's funny because it's supposed to be like this time of birth and regrowth. But as we said, it's a fitting metaphor for cancer survivorship because at least here, where we live in Michigan, spring is like snow, and then daffodils and then more snow and wet, yucky ground. And it's like, that's definitely been our experience of emerging into survivorship. And we covered things like fertility and overshadowing each other's milestones, living with the precarity of life, and survivor's guilt. So… Yeah, I don't know. It's funny; we said isolation was the hardest to reflect on. And I think I stand by that, but this has definitely been a heavier season. How has this been for you as you're actively living this season and talking about it?
Ella 26:06
Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I think we definitely did not take this season lightly. You know, they weren't all sunshine and flowers, but I think that's the truth of it. And I think acknowledging that, I'm hopeful that there are people out there who really have struggled in survivorship and maybe this made them feel more seen or more understood. I mean, that would be my hope for sure. And I just think it's been super therapeutic for me. And I know we've already said this on previous episodes and probably already on this one too, but I think as we continue to live into survivorship, I think some of the things that we've been talking about have been good reminders even to myself too, that, yeah, you know, you are going to have ongoing things that will just be there or finding ways to integrate your cancer experience in your life, but not let it overwhelm you. You know, I think there's a lot of really helpful truths that we've discussed that have been a really much needed reminder for me too. What about for you?
Kayla 27:23
Yeah, I like what you said about maybe people struggling in survivorship will feel seen by this because, like we've talked about, I think I thought getting to the other side, so to speak, would fix everything. And it just doesn't. And it's a process and it's still ongoing, so I've liked exploring that with you. I am super thankful for our relationship and that we can talk about things like how life's not fair and like it's changed family dynamics and things like that, and yet still like, love each other through it and just acknowledge those realities. That's been really healing for me. I think our spring season has been perhaps the most emblematic of our goal to empathize and educate. Like our fertility episode comes to mind. I think that people listening who are in premature menopause or, you know, didn't have an opportunity to harvest their eggs or whatever, like, would feel seen. And then I think that was probably pretty educational for people who haven't thought all that through or have no reason to know that. I definitely have appreciated… I feel like we've been living into our mission, so to speak, of empathizing and educating with this last season. I can't believe this is the end. I mean, I think we're both ready for a break. It's been healing, and yet it's a lot to come record once a week and talk about cancer together. Like we've said, a lot of this stuff is heavy and so I won't necessarily miss going there in our emotions once a week with you. But I think there will be times I do miss that too. And for all of you listening, like, I really appreciate that you've kept downloading and listening and sharing it with your friends, and it's just been really cool to have consistent downloads that people like, just knowing people are listening and getting something from it, and sometimes hearing from random people, either strangers or people you know, you knew in high school or from some other part of life that they're like, “Hey, you know, you've been doing a podcast. I've been really appreciating it;” like that's been really fulfilling to hear. So we just want to say thank you from the bottom of our hearts for going on this journey with us for a year. I can't believe it's been that long and who knows what the future holds. I hope that on this podcast, we've made it clear that none of us knows that. So, um, feel free to keep sharing this with anyone who might benefit from it and access that website, the podcast, whenever you need to look up a resource or anything. And we just wish you guys all the best as you move into this continued indefinite season like survivorship. As we say in our intro every week, it's a pity so many of us carry the heavy burden of cancer alone, so why not make it a party and carry it together? So thank you for being a part of this pity party, so to speak, with us for a year, and just know that it's always here in spirit, even if new episodes aren't coming out. So take care.